Curse

Arkantos · Jun 27, 2009, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antares Ascending

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Rock, by a huge margin. A great number of rock music groups are have attended university and actualy know what they are doing. A great many rock pieces have components from the masters as a base.
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Rap is easy, fun for some but as a rule requires little real musical talent. I'm sure there are some rappers who do know what they are doing but most don't.
1
Used to play base in a rock group and was amazed by what some people were capable of. After attending a symphont concert I was totaly blown away. These people were all incredible!!!

Proof that a great number of rock bands have attented university, please.

Saying rap is easy is ignorant. It's not. It takes talent. I'm not going to bother arguing with anyone who disagrees, because they're just ignorant. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If it's so easy, you do it. Let's see if you're on par with people who can actually rap. Fact: you aren't. If you've never attempted rapping, you're going to suck at it. And since lots of people who dislike rap say it's retards attempting poetry...well, lol at you.

Jumping Is Uselss · Jun 28, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antares Ascending

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2
Rock, by a huge margin. A great number of rock music groups are have attended university and actualy know what they are doing. A great many rock pieces have components from the masters as a base.

ROFL!, nice attempt at trolling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

all other metal >>>>>> rock = rap >>> death metal >>>> all other music

Your equation has been fix'd.

Nodakim · Jun 28, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Proof that a great number of rock bands have attented university, please.

Saying rap is easy is ignorant. It's not. It takes talent. I'm not going to bother arguing with anyone who disagrees, because they're just ignorant. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If it's so easy, you do it. Let's see if you're on par with people who can actually rap. Fact: you aren't. If you've never attempted rapping, you're going to suck at it. And since lots of people who dislike rap say it's retards attempting poetry...well, lol at you.

Rap takes talent,but seriosuly can you say that any of the popular rapers have it?
Maybe for a few,but the rest are garbage in every way.

Screensaver91 · Jun 28, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

House music please, and probably a bit of \m/

Blackhearted · Jun 29, 2009, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Proof that a great number of rock bands have attented university, please.

Saying rap is easy is ignorant. It's not. It takes talent. I'm not going to bother arguing with anyone who disagrees, because they're just ignorant. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If it's so easy, you do it. Let's see if you're on par with people who can actually rap. Fact: you aren't. If you've never attempted rapping, you're going to suck at it. And since lots of people who dislike rap say it's retards attempting poetry...well, lol at you.

Talent? Puh-lease. You can't honestly tell me it takes talent to: 1. lay down 3-6 drum sounds, 2. set the drum program to loop those sounds for 3 to 4 mins, and then 3. talk(not sing) with the beat. The only part of rap that may be slightly difficult is making everything rhyme all the time. Other than that there's no real "skill/talent" needed. As unlike real music there's pretty much no such thing as playing an instrument or actual singing(aka things that really need talent).

As for the thread title... neither tbh. I don't like rap, and while some rock is "decent", i prefer metal over the dulled down mainstream flavor of most rock.

Antares Ascending · Jun 29, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

.

Un named quote below

I'd like to see the statistics you used to base your statement about a "great" number of rock groups actually attended unversities. Wait, I'm going to take a stab and just assume you really dont have any stats on this....thus you are making an assumption which could very easily be jaded and wrong

Answer

ok, here's two..one older, one newer

Steve Winwood
Eddie Vanhalen

There are more. Bet 100k I can come up with more?
I will grant that many are self taught but the fact is they actually understand music. I can't think of one that has zero understanding of music structure.

Arkantos · Jun 29, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhearted

Talent? Puh-lease. You can't honestly tell me it takes talent to: 1. lay down 3-6 drum sounds, 2. set the drum program to loop those sounds for 3 to 4 mins, and then 3. talk(not sing) with the beat. The only part of rap that may be slightly difficult is making everything rhyme all the time. Other than that there's no real "skill/talent" needed. As unlike real music there's pretty much no such thing as playing an instrument or actual singing(aka things that really need talent).

As for the thread title... neither tbh. I don't like rap, and while some rock is "decent", i prefer metal over the dulled down mainstream flavor of most rock.

Producing the beat and rapping are two different things generally done by two different people. Also, rap is more than talking to the beat. Anyone can talk to a beat. Not anyone can actually rap.

Abedeus · Jun 29, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodakim

Rap takes talent,but seriosuly can you say that any of the popular rapers have it?
Maybe for a few,but the rest are garbage in every way.

Any rapper (double-P, remember? RAPER is sounds almost like RAPIST) that has or had any talent is either dead or he doesn't appear in public a lot. Dr Dre, 2Pac, B.I.G., old Snoop Dogg stuff.

Compare today's most popular rock bands to today's most popular rappers. Jesus Christ. It might explain why I like rap, but only the old songs. It's not my taste that changed - it's the current representation of the genre.

Quote:

House music please, and probably a bit of \m/

Isn't house just rap and techno without words?

REDdelver · Jun 30, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antares Ascending

.

Un named quote below

I'd like to see the statistics you used to base your statement about a "great" number of rock groups actually attended unversities. Wait, I'm going to take a stab and just assume you really dont have any stats on this....thus you are making an assumption which could very easily be jaded and wrong

Answer

ok, here's two..one older, one newer

Steve Winwood
Eddie Vanhalen

There are more. Bet 100k I can come up with more?
I will grant that many are self taught but the fact is they actually understand music. I can't think of one that has zero understanding of music structure.

You made the statement about a "great number" of artists have gone through universities. This above post proves my thoughts. You only listed 2.
Why would i bet you 100k to come up with more???? Thats like you betting 100k I cant name 3 of George Foremans' sons. You wouldnt take that bet.

You may know of some, the fact remains you cant backup your original statement with some actual numbers. Some=handfull=a couple....doesnt equal a great number!

I'm not in anyway taking anything from any rock group or other group. Thats not me. Im not an idiot. TO MAKE MUSIC TAKES TALENT no matter what music it is. For the people who continue to say it doesnt take talent to make hip hop/rap songs, wake up. Go make some hip hop music and see whether it makes it. Put your money where your mouth is and see "how easy it is"

There are countless of Rappers that don't make it. If it was so easy and it doesnt take any talent, then all the rappers in the world would have made it.

garethporlest18 · Jun 30, 2009, 08:13 AM // 08:13

I like rock and metal. Depends on my mood mostly. I used to like rap. Not so much anymore but if it's on then I'll listen to it. Not that it'd be on at my house.

Sometimes I feel like...getting my battle axe, going out to the woods and blasting Amon Amarth, Turisas, Finntroll or ya know Windir. Maybe Stormforger too, depends really. Too bad I cut off my hair, windmilling was great fun.

Antares Ascending · Jun 30, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDdelver

You made the statement about a "great number" of artists have gone through universities. This above post proves my thoughts. You only listed 2.
Why would i bet you 100k to come up with more???? Thats like you betting 100k I cant name 3 of George Foremans' sons. You wouldnt take that bet.

You may know of some, the fact remains you cant backup your original statement with some actual numbers. Some=handfull=a couple....doesnt equal a great number!

I'm not in anyway taking anything from any rock group or other group. Thats not me. Im not an idiot. TO MAKE MUSIC TAKES TALENT no matter what music it is. For the people who continue to say it doesnt take talent to make hip hop/rap songs, wake up. Go make some hip hop music and see whether it makes it. Put your money where your mouth is and see "how easy it is"

There are countless of Rappers that don't make it. If it was so easy and it doesnt take any talent, then all the rappers in the world would have made it.

ROFL. You want me to do homework for you now? Like naming 3 of George Formans sons is easy eh? Does that mean you admit there are many, easy to name trained musicians in rock? The offer is 100k per name.

There was a PBS special about a year ago and what I wrote came from that show. The show had interviews with the artists mentioned along with several others. It was initialy surprising when they all said that they had many pieces with 'masters' influence. They also said that most of their more successful peers had a deep understanding of music. This is only gotten by study and dedication. Rap is generaly a simple format with basic timings.

One huge difference you will see between high level rockers and rappers is longevity. This requires the ability to adapt to different types of music...because they actually understand music. I don't think tooo many (any?) rappers fit this mold.

A musician doen't have to be schooled to be good but they must be hungry for music knowledge (they study music). This allows them to remain in the music business long term.
Ice T did an interview a while back and said when the money stopped he would go back to the 'hood' and deal crack. Wow, if that isn't dedication! Serious musicians take their work more seriously than that. Then we have Snoop Dog who is now a celebrety of sorts, Doing anything new these days? ( being on commercials for 'Girls Gone Wild' doesn't count)

By the way, knowing when to 'punch' something for a good beat doesn't require talent. Music composition requires a bit more knowledge as well as talent

There are, as you said, rappers who don't make it. There are people in every walk of life that don't make to. doesn't prove anything tho.
Most rappers are foul mouthed which I suppose is cool to some but no talent is needed...just a hook to get people to watch and listen. Having a stage persona is ok but its to repetative with rappers today.

Even in some of the early rap, some of which was decent, it wasn't the actual rapper who put together arangements in most cases. It was the backup band. It could be argued that a professional singer falls into this catagory. Difference is the singer can get by with very little in the way of a repeting pounding "beat" to keep them on track.

That said, I don't listen to much rock or rap these days.

edit: Know of any rappers who have actualy studied music?

REDdelver · Jul 01, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antares Ascending

ROFL. You want me to do homework for you now? Like naming 3 of George Formans sons is easy eh? Does that mean you admit there are many, easy to name trained musicians in rock? The offer is 100k per name.

There was a PBS special about a year ago and what I wrote came from that show. The show had interviews with the artists mentioned along with several others. It was initialy surprising when they all said that they had many pieces with 'masters' influence. They also said that most of their more successful peers had a deep understanding of music. This is only gotten by study and dedication. Rap is generaly a simple format with basic timings.

One huge difference you will see between high level rockers and rappers is longevity. This requires the ability to adapt to different types of music...because they actually understand music. I don't think tooo many (any?) rappers fit this mold.

A musician doen't have to be schooled to be good but they must be hungry for music knowledge (they study music). This allows them to remain in the music business long term.
Ice T did an interview a while back and said when the money stopped he would go back to the 'hood' and deal crack. Wow, if that isn't dedication! Serious musicians take their work more seriously than that. Then we have Snoop Dog who is now a celebrety of sorts, Doing anything new these days? ( being on commercials for 'Girls Gone Wild' doesn't count)

By the way, knowing when to 'punch' something for a good beat doesn't require talent. Music composition requires a bit more knowledge as well as talent

There are, as you said, rappers who don't make it. There are people in every walk of life that don't make to. doesn't prove anything tho.
Most rappers are foul mouthed which I suppose is cool to some but no talent is needed...just a hook to get people to watch and listen. Having a stage persona is ok but its to repetative with rappers today.

Even in some of the early rap, some of which was decent, it wasn't the actual rapper who put together arangements in most cases. It was the backup band. It could be argued that a professional singer falls into this catagory. Difference is the singer can get by with very little in the way of a repeting pounding "beat" to keep them on track.

That said, I don't listen to much rock or rap these days.

edit: Know of any rappers who have actualy studied music?

Yes naming 3 of his sons is easy.........they are all named George Forman!!
Im done going back and forth.

You continue to Paste your opinions as facts. They are your opinions that something doesnt take talent. But truly facts elude you.

KoKoS · Jul 01, 2009, 10:33 AM // 10:33

haha i found another rock-rap same song thing xD

rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbsQKd9ELf4
rap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_pIv9jNmm8 (soz it's a bit greek xD)

DreamRunner · Jul 01, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Isn't house just rap and techno without words?

I suggest you re-read what you said, just so you can fix it later because it makes no sense. At the moment by your definition, house is a music genre that doesn't have words but it is a the very same as a rap (vocal genre) and techno. Even though, techno and house are both different sub-genres and have major differences between them.

avictimoflag · Jul 01, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

There's a difference in old rap/contemporary rap such as the difference between classic rock and modern rock. If you ask me, I'm not much of a fan of either of today's genres. Most rock I hear nowadays is garbage just like mainstream rap. Ask yourself how much artistry, creativity, and meaning are amongst the average rock group today. People do forget that there are respectable non-ghetto rap artists today, such as Common and Lupe Fiasco.

bhavv · Jul 01, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

When you judge music based only on what you hear in the pop charts, you fail as a music critic.
Most Rap artists in popular music are completely crap. Most Rock artists in popular music are completely crap. Most pop / dance artists in popular music ...

Maybe you get the point.

When the music market is so oversaturated with talentless crap, it becomes increasingly difficult for those who are talented and actually good at music and their genre to find a place in the business and to develop a fan base and sell enough records to maintain a recording contract.

The day you stop listening to MTV, the radio, and maybe even quit paying any attention to the charts and what sells and what doesnt is the day that your ears really open up to music. The more popular music your brain absorbs, the more poisoned and clouded your opinions and critique about music becomes.

Record companies carry out surveys, find out what music people want to buy, and when a demand is found in the market, along comes a talentless manufactured artist to try and fill that gap.

There are a few talented artists in the charts yes, but mainly, popular music is not about musical talent, it is a business to sell as many records as possible, and that means manufacturing an artist based on demand.

Abedeus · Jul 01, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

I suggest you re-read what you said, just so you can fix it later because it makes no sense. At the moment by your definition, house is a music genre that doesn't have words but it is a the very same as a rap (vocal genre) and techno. Even though, techno and house are both different sub-genres and have major differences between them.

I was talking about monotonous beat from rap and umc umc umc from techno, and looped.

Crash Override · Jul 01, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

This whole argument is bullshit and the "rap versus rock" dichotomy is rather childish. Why do I have to pick rock or rap? I enjoy both rock and rap, along with metal, techno, ska, punk, and many other different genres.

To the guys hating rap, go listen to some Run-D.M.C. and Public Enemy and tell me that rap is only about "guns, bitches, weed, and money".

DreamRunner · Jul 02, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I was talking about monotonous beat from rap and umc umc umc from techno, and looped.

*sigh* I don't think you actually know what techno is. If you did know, then you would know that techno mainly focuses on percussion sounds - the beats, while the melody is usually non-existent or very subtle in a techno track. Although, by employing a wide variety of abstract drum patterns, techno doesn't need a melody. I think you are trying to explain the kick and bassline?

But are you saying that rock DOESN'T loop its sounds?

Antares Ascending · Jul 02, 2009, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDdelver

Yes naming 3 of his sons is easy.........they are all named George Forman!!
Im done going back and forth.

You continue to Paste your opinions as facts. They are your opinions that something doesnt take talent. But truly facts elude you.

umm, That was the point. btw, I named some for your question...answer mine

Know of any rappers who have actualy studied music?

edit: btw, the fact George Forman named all his sons George, not just 3 is common knowledge. He also name his grill George.

You equated naming them to naming rock musicians in difficulty. You still havent begun to answer my question in return. Thats because NO rappers have studied music.